Cable news networks — hell, journalists in general — love it when a politician sticks his foot in his mouth. Luckily for the chattering classes, there are more than enough verbal gems coming from the blow-dried overachievers up on Capitol Hill to keep every televised talking head babbling over the “consequences” of what they said for hours on end.
But more often than not, cable news orgs take it too far. Last night provided a perfect example, as CNN went wall-to-wall with Democratic Rep. Charlie Rangel’s non-starter suggestion that the U.S. reinstate the draft.
Paula Zahn went gaga over the idea, despite the fact that the New York congressman has suggested this in the past — in January 2003 to be exact — and the chances of a draft becoming law any time soon are essentially nil. In a bit of political gamesmanship, the bill actually came up for a vote on the House floor in October 2004, and was defeated 402-2, with even Rangel voting against it.
Rangel’s point in bringing up the issue again is the same as it was in 2003 — he claims that the military is predominately made up of poor kids with few other options, and cites the need for a national discussion about a nationalized service program. As he said over the weekend, “Having our young people commit themselves to a couple years in service of this great republic, whether it’s our seaports, our airports, in schools, in hospitals — and, at the end of that, to provide some educational benefits — it’s the best thing for our young people and the best thing for our country.” He’s got a point, and the issue of service is a worthy and important discussion to have. To that end, Rangel knows that the draft issue is one way to get journalists’ tongues wagging.
But still, Zahn seemed to miss the point of Rangel’s proposal — purposefully, I would guess, in the interest in trying to stir up some Democratic infighting — while trying to frame it simply as a matter of force levels and the Democratic Party’s lack of a backbone.
She began by asking Rangel if he was “disappointed” that the “newly elected Democratic leadership won’t touch your draft issue?” Rangel tried to defuse the issue, replying, “I don’t blame them. Talking about the draft is a very dangerous thing politically.”
Zahn smelled blood: “What’s so dangerous? What’s the risk?”
Rangel then gave the weakest of all the various arguments for instituting a national service program: “The risk is that you’re talking about putting kids, American kids, in harm’s way that come from affluent voting families. And they don’t like that idea.” But Zahn wasn’t done forcing the issue into her frame of an intra-party battle, in which Democrats display their storied squeamishness and propensity for bashing each others’ skulls in: “When you say you don’t blame the Democratic leadership,” she said, moving in for the kill, “don’t you wish they had more backbone on this one?”
Rangel punted on the party-bashing, saying, “I don’t care what the leadership does.” Zahn persisted: “But isn’t it disingenuous for you to say that you don’t care what the House leadership does, when, in fact, you need them if there’s ever going to be a vote on this issue?”
Apparently Zahn didn’t know, or didn’t care to share with her audience, that the House voted on a draft bill in 2004, and as noted above, Rangel voted against it. “Forget the vote,” he replied. “Before you get to the vote, we have to have the debate; we have to have the hearings; we have to have full discussion. And that’s good enough for me. It could very well be, at the end of the day, the wars are over, they don’t need all of these people, and so we don’t need a draft.”
It took a few minutes, but Rangel finally got to the meat of his argument: that calling for a draft is his way of trying to force the country into having a discussion about national service, and that he’s more interested in the discussion than in voting on the proposal any time soon.
But Zahn wasn’t done beating a dead horse. She shuffled Rangel off in favor of Republican Rep. Duncan Hunter of California, the current chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. There was some forgettable back and forth before she closed the interview by asking a rhetorical — and nonsensical — question: “So, the question is, if we don’t bring back the draft, and don’t bring the troops home immediately, who will be going to Iraq?”
But is that the question? And is she serious? If we don’t bring back the draft, and don’t bring the troops home immediately, I’ll tell you who will be going to Iraq: soldiers and Marines who signed up voluntarily — the same men and women who have been going for almost four years now.
And there’s more. To top off the over-the-top response to Rangel’s modest proposal, CNN then sent reporter Thelma Gutierrez to Hemet, California, population 67,000, which has lost four soldiers in Iraq, for an “on the ground” perspective, and talked to several draft-age young men about the prospects of being called up.
It’s understandable that Zahn wanted to talk about Rangel’s proposal — it’s timely and has the potential to be a divisive issue. But if she or her staff were being honest about it, they would recognize that Rangel isn’t really calling for a draft, nor does he seem to think it would have much of a chance of passing anyway. Instead, he’s trying to use the atmospherics of television and the 24-hour news cycle to get the country talking about service and class, despite the fact that journalists like Zahn insist on missing the point.



Magnifying and making up infighting among congressional Democrats are on the media agenda since they ended their two-day "honeymoon" with the winning side of the midterm elections.
Posted by Brigitte Nacos on Tue 21 Nov 2006 at 04:14 PM
Let's see if we have this straight
In McLearyland, "professional journalists" are supposed to take it easy on Congressional leaders who threaten to reinstitue the draft in order to focus attention on some other social agenda...
The reason "professional journalists" should do this is because it should be obvious to all of them that they are not to take a Democratic Congressman at his word, but instead are suppposed to realize that he doesn't really mean what he says...
And that he REALLY means something else...
EVERYBODY ought to know that when the Chairman of the House Ways and Committee says that he wants to reinstitute the draft, that the LAST thing the Chairman wants to do is to reinsitute the draft... Right?...
McLearyland is strange, strange place indeed...
Posted by padikiller on Tue 21 Nov 2006 at 04:52 PM
Instead, he's trying to use the atmospherics of television and the 24-hour news cycle to get the country talking about service and class, despite the fact that journalists like Zahn insist on missing the point.
What’s fascinating in another of Paul’s “speakin truth to power” essays is that he buys Rangel’s bullshit argument at all. I know it’s taken at face value when people like Rangel, and apparently McCleary in this case, say that the sacrifices made by members of the armed forces are borne disproportionaly by the poor minority underclass, but do the numbers actually bear this out? The trend for the past several years is that more and more recruits, disproportionaly so, have come from higher income families and fewer from minority families.
Its nice to see some taboos are fair game, and like usual, some are just taken as gospel truth.
Posted by TDC on Wed 22 Nov 2006 at 02:48 PM
It's also nice to see tough-minded conservatives who scoff at all sorts of mathematical analyses when they come from liberal sources lap up "how to lie with statistics" parlor tricks when they hail from right-wing think tanks.
The linked Heritage study does not show that "more and more recruits ... have come from higher income families". The study has absolutely no data whatsoever on recruits' family incomes. It works entirely from the median income of their home zip codes. There are plenty of poor kids in affluent neighborhoods. And when Kaine goes on to claim that the income levels among recruits have increased in recent years, he does so by comparing the mean of those median zip code incomes. But mean incomes are not very informative, since outliers can skew those figures: a few extra recruits from the right zip codes in Redmond, WA might create a "trend".
The author of the study is a trained economist, so he knows what he's doing: peddling junk social science. The same can't be said of his credulous readers, evidently.
Posted by MRooney on Thu 23 Nov 2006 at 02:01 AM
I see, so on one hand we have a trained economist performing an analysis based on the best information available, as the DOD does not track the information necessary, and on the other hand we have the old left wing canard that “the poor black and brown man fights the rich white mans war”. One, at least, tries to apply some empirical data to its argument, but I know you buy the other bullshit because of the “right wing” (boo hiss) source of the other. It makes you feel comfy and cozy to believe one because it reinforces your prejudices and the groupthink you subscribe to. Pull you head out of your ass and learn to think for a change.
Posted by TDC on Thu 23 Nov 2006 at 12:56 PM
I gave logical reasons why Kaine's analysis -- whatever his pedigree -- is simply not compelling. It's simply not based on the relevant empirical evidence.
You, on the other hand, insist that I need to "learn to think" by obeying what the trained economist in the employ of an overtly ideological political organization tells me to think.
To paraphrase Groucho Marx: who are you going to believe, your own eyes, or a right-wing think tank? Happy Thanksgiving!
Posted by MRooney on Thu 23 Nov 2006 at 01:33 PM
I gave logical reasons why Kaine's analysis -- whatever his pedigree -- is simply not compelling. It's simply not based on the relevant empirical evidence.
No, you presented a strawman, and a poor one at that.
Posted by TDC on Thu 23 Nov 2006 at 01:57 PM
TDC wrote:
I know it’s taken at face value when people like Rangel, and apparently McCleary in this case, say that the sacrifices made by members of the armed forces are borne disproportionaly by the poor minority underclass, but do the numbers actually bear this out?
padikiller comments:
TDC has this EXACTLY right...
CJR considers any crazy Democratic claim (like Rangel's claims regarding his reason for supporting the draft or Kerry's claim to have "botched" a joke) to be gospel truth.... These Dem claims are to be taken at face value and immune from skepticism or scrutiny... No matter how ridiculous they are...
Of course, the rules in McLearyland are disparate... Any claim from the White House (or indeed any GOP member at all) is instantly ridiculed or dismissed by the CJR "watchdogs"...
THIS Orwellian dichotomy in political coverage is CJR's idea of "professional journalism"...
As TDC notes.. There is NOT A SINGLE SHRED of evidence to support Rangel's stupid claim that minorities or lower income Americans are disproportionately represented in the American military...
And TDC has presented a study that indicates EXACTLY the opposite...
But why would the McLearyites let trifling facts impede the jaundiced progress of "professional journalism"?...
Posted by padikiller on Fri 24 Nov 2006 at 11:24 AM
To recap:
TDC claimed that Kaine's Heritage Foundation study showed that:
The trend for the past several years is that more and more recruits, disproportionaly so, have come from higher income families and fewer from minority families.
I pointed out that Kaine's study shows no such thing. Kaine does not cite any empirical data about recruits' families' actual incomes. Kaine's claims about income deal only with the median incomes of the ZIP codes recruits come from, which tell us little if anything about the actual incomes of the recruits' families.
In short: TDC made a claim that is not backed up by evidence. Yet on the basis of this flimsy partisan "analysis" (that would never pass muster in any peer-reviewed journal), TDC concludes that Rangel's claim is "bullshit" and I have my head up my ass. Though TDC claims I have attacked a strawman, he nowhere backs that up -- Kaine's methodology is plainly stated in the linked study.
As I've observed before, this site's resident right-wingers suffer from a sort of cognitive schizophrenia. On the one hand, they go into grand mal seizures over the faintest whiff of "liberal" media bias. But at the same time, they uncritically quaff the dopiest ideological bongwater -- so long as it comes from the Bush Administration or its proxies. So much for being independent or balanced watchdogs.
Posted by MRooney on Fri 24 Nov 2006 at 05:17 PM
MRooney dodges and whines:
I pointed out that Kaine's study shows no such thing...
padikiller responds:
This is a typical liberal dodge...
A straw man... A study in semantics...
The FACT of the matter is that Kaine's data shows that recruits are coming from the rich neighborhoods... NOT the poor ones... And MRooney just can't deal with it... So he nitpicks himself an out...
However the POINT here is much deeper than semantics....
WHY is that CJR's READERS have the reposibility of shining a skeptical light on Rangel's nonsense?....
Why don't one of you McLearyite whack jobs point to some data that supports Rangel's nonsense?... (Since Mr. McLeary can't seem to do it himself)
WHY is that Rangel's rants are taken as gospel truth by CJR?..
WHY is that READERS have the responsiblity here to refute ANY baseless assertions CJR parrots from liberal politicians?...
WHY are Democratic claims taken as truth in McLearyland, while GOP claims are dismissed outright as lies?....
HUH?....
You fruitcakes can dance around the reality all night, but the truth isn't going anywhere...
No matter how much bongwater you make...
Posted by padikiller on Fri 24 Nov 2006 at 07:35 PM
Padikiller weighs in:
The FACT of the matter is that Kaine's data shows that recruits are coming from the rich neighborhoods... NOT the poor ones...No, Kaine's study shows no such thing. He shows that the mean of the median incomes of the ZIP codes of recruits has increased slightly (less than $2,000) between 1999 and 2005. But no serious economic analysis is done using mean incomes, since an arithmetic mean is very susceptible to outliers. By using mean income, for example, you could "prove" that the average taxpayer in Redmond, Washington is a millionaire. And the median income of a ZIP code tells us little to nothing about the income of the kids who actually enlist. If you want to believe on the basis of this cherry-picked datapoint that the children of the rich are tripping over themselves to go to Ramadi, be my guest. But that you call this an all-caps "FACT" merely shows (yet again) that you are an apparatchik incapable of rational discourse.
Posted by MRooney on Fri 24 Nov 2006 at 09:02 PM
MRooney remains divorced from the inconvenient reality here... He is trying to shift the burden in this debate away from Mr. McLeary and instead to the readers... Another typical liberal dodge....
TDC's point was that Rangel's wacky claim is taken as truth in McClearyland... As are some of the silliest liberal claims made-like Kerry's claim to have "botched" a"joke" at the expense of the soldiers serving in Iraq...
A point that MRooney has nothing to refute with his Liberal Two-Step...
WHY IS THIS?...
HUH, MROONEY?...
WHERE IS THE DATA TO JUSTIFY MR. MCLEARY'S TACIT PRESENTATION OF RANGEL'S CLAIM AS FACT?...
Why is that that CJR will send a reporter to Texas on a quixotic quest to verify Dan Rather's amateurishly forged memos... But it can't seem to find the time to nail down Rangel's claim with the most basic fact-checking?...
WHY is that "professional journalists" are required in McLearyland to give a pass to Congressional leaders who CJR believes to be engaging in political subterfuge?...
HUH?....
Would CJR extend such a pass to Karl Rove, if CJR believed that Rove was playing fast and loose with the truth in order to score political points on a hotbed issue like the reinstitution of the draft?...
HUH?...
Why don't one of you McLearyites step up to the plate and answer these questions?...
HUH?.....
Posted by padikiller on Sat 25 Nov 2006 at 10:15 AM
National service is a stupid idea. It would hold back the talented and ambitious young people from all classes by forcing them to do menial and most probably irrelevant jobs after graduation.
It is just another way for the government to take control of our lives. Why stop with one or two years of service? Shouldn't we just serve the state for our entire lives?
Posted by Adam Saunders on Sat 25 Nov 2006 at 10:34 AM
Padikiller again:
WHERE IS THE DATA TO JUSTIFY MR. MCLEARY'S TACIT PRESENTATION OF RANGEL'S CLAIM AS FACT?...Re-read the first sentence of the fourth paragraph in McLeary's article. You'll notice the phrase "he claims". Nowhere is it presented as fact. If that's a "tacit presentation", then articles on the Litvinenko death are "tacitly" stating as fact that Putin had nothing to do with it merely by quoting his denials.
For what it's worth, I think Rangel's show vote and proposal are fairly lame ideas.
Posted by MRooney on Sat 25 Nov 2006 at 11:49 AM
MRooney goes off the deep end:
Re-read the first sentence of the fourth paragraph in McLeary's article. You'll notice the phrase "he claims". Nowhere is it presented as fact.
padikiller responds:
OK, I'll play the Liberal Reality Dodge with you for a while....
Let's reread the paragraph together (omitting Rangel's vapid quote for brevity clarity and sticking with McLeary's take on the validity of Rangel's nonsense)....
"Rangel's point in bringing up the issue again is the same as it was in 2003 -- he claims that the military is predominately made up of poor kids with few other options, and cites the need for a national discussion about a nationalized service program... ...He's got a point, and the issue of service is a worthy and important discussion to have."
He's "got a point" about WHAT?... What facts conspire to make this "point"?
If this prime example of yellow journalism isn't a tacit presentation of a claim as fact, then NOTHING is!...
Would Mr. McLeary blindly credit President Bush with having a "point" about proposed tax cuts?... Or oil exploration?.. OR immigration?.... Or indeed ANY claim offered without a single shred of evidence?...
HUH?...
The reality isn't going anywhere, MRooney, just because you McLearyites fail to see it...
The issue remains...
WHY does CJR believe that a Democratic Congressional leader deserves a free pass from the scrutiny of "professional journalists" because it is CLAIMED he chooses to engage in political subterfuge regarding an issue as devisive as the draft?... WOULD CJR give such a pass to a Republican who it belived to be playing political games with such an issue?..
HUH?...
Posted by padikiller on Sat 25 Nov 2006 at 01:07 PM
Actually, omitting the quotation from Rangel doesn't clarify the passage, it distorts it.
Rangel's point in bringing up the issue again is the same as it was in 2003 -- he claims that the military is predominately made up of poor kids with few other options, and cites the need for a national discussion about a nationalized service program. As he said over the weekend, "Having our young people commit themselves to a couple years in service of this great republic, whether it's our seaports, our airports, in schools, in hospitals -- and, at the end of that, to provide some educational benefits -- it's the best thing for our young people and the best thing for our country." He's got a point, and the issue of service is a worthy and important discussion to have.To save any long-suffering readers of this discussion an extra scroll up, here is the passage, verbatim:
"He's got a point" plainly refers to the quote, which is about the value of service, not the economic composition of the military. Adducing this as "a tacit presentation of a claim as fact" is utterly untenable.
(By the way, McLeary should have written "predominantly".)
Posted by MRooney on Sat 25 Nov 2006 at 01:54 PM
MRooney dodges
"He's got a point" plainly refers to the quote, which is about the value of service,
padikiller responds:
Yes... DRAFT service in the MILITARY...
And assuming for the sake of argument your vacuous claim that McLeary merely parroted Rangel's race-baiting allegation without comment...
SO WHAT?....
How does that relieve "professional journalism" of the responsibility to fact-check Rangel's nonsense?..
WHO decided that two years of involuntary service in the military is "the best thing for our country"?
Would Mr. McLeary concede that President Bush "has a point" about tax cuts being "the best thing for our country"?....
Or that the Iraq War is the "best thing for our country"?...
What kind of "journalism" is this, that regurgitates the claims of Democrats, but dismisses the claims of Republicans?...
HUH?....
This question isn't going anywhere..
You can dodge Reality all day long... But your best footwork won't get you McLearyites off the hook....
Why can't you answer this question?...
Posted by padikiller on Sat 25 Nov 2006 at 03:28 PM
Padikiller yet again:
Yes... DRAFT service in the MILITARY...Padikiller, you may be unfamiliar with the actual duties of the U.S. military, but let me assure you from experience that soldiers don't generally perform their service in "our airports, in schools, in hospitals". Therefore, Rangel is evidently discussing some other form of service. Thus, you are, again, simply wrong.
At this point, Padi, you have changed the subject at least three times, and three times, I have shown that your accusations are not only baseless, but founded on childish misreadings and distortions. So, as has happened several times before on this site, I can only conclude that you are incapable of or unwilling to engage in rational discussion. Thus I leave the last word to you. I am sure you will not disappoint, and you will bring down the curtain with yet more elegantly crafted prose, replete with your clever capital letters, eloquent ellipses, and the always devastating rejoinder "HUH?". Do share.
Posted by MRooney on Sat 25 Nov 2006 at 08:30 PM
MRooney cuts and runs from the issue
I leave the last word to you.
padikiller asks the question for the zillionth time:
What kind of "journalism" is this, that regurgitates the claims of Democrats, but dismisses the claims of Republicans?...
HUH?....
This question isn't going anywhere..
You can dodge Reality all day long... But your best footwork won't get you McLearyites off the hook....
Posted by padikiller on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 07:31 AM
that blacks and the poor serve in the service at a high rate isn't disputed - It's certainly not disputed by the DOD who have admitted the Armed Forces don't reflect the US demographically. Of course I don't expect you to take my word for it. Take theirs
http://www.dod.gov/prhome/poprep2002/pdf/chapters2002.pdf
http://www.dod.gov/prhome/poprep98/html/chapter_9.html
Posted by Brian DeSpain on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 12:46 PM
Brian DeSpain wrote:
that blacks and the poor serve in the service at a high rate isn't disputed - It's certainly not disputed by the DOD who have admitted the Armed Forces don't reflect the US demographically. Of course I don't expect you to take my word for it. Take theirs
padikiller reads from Brian's link:
"DoD Youth Poll 4 indicates that propensity to enlist following the terrorist attacks increased for Whites and males. With this increase in propensity, the Services experienced an increase in White enlistment proportion (both male and female) with a concomitant decrease in Black enlistment proportion.
*****************
"The largest percentage of Blacks and “Others” are in functional support and administration, while combat and electrical/mechanical repair occupations are the most prevalent among Whites and combat and functional support occupations are most prevalent among Hispanics."
Posted by padikiller on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 01:36 PM
Yeap more people signed up post 9/11 - my brother was one of them. But you cherry picking a quote, while ignoring obvious data is silly.
"With respect to race/ethnicity, the Armed Forces maintain a fairly representative
workforce. Blacks continue their historically strong military presence in the enlisted ranks (22
percent), at levels higher than population proportions (13 percent). However, the proportion of
Black accessions in FY 2002—less than 16 percent—is significantly less than in FY 2001 when
nearly 20 percent of all NPS enlisted accessions were Black. Despite the decrease in Black
recruits, this minority group continues to be overrepresented among new Servicemembers
compared to the comparable civilian population."
"There is evidence that war tends to polarize youth’s likelihood to consider the military.3
That is, individuals who were previously likely to join the military are even more likely to join
during war. On the other hand, individuals who were previously unlikely to join the military are
even less likely to consider the military when the nation is sending men and women to combat.
However, there seem to be differential effects by race/ethnicity."
Seventy-eight percent of the applicants were male, of whom 66 percent were White, 16
percent Black, 12 percent Hispanic, and 7 percent “Other.”18 For female applicants,
approximately 54 percent were White, 26 percent Black, 13 percent Hispanic, and 8 percent
“Other.” A smaller proportion of Whites, whether male or female, applied for the Army and
Navy, compared to the Marine Corps and Air Force.
Posted by Brian DeSpain on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 02:09 PM
Hey Padikiller - what's the purpose of that last quote? Just wondering.
Posted by Brian DeSpain on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 02:24 PM
Brian DeSpain wrote:
But you cherry picking a quote, while ignoring obvious data is silly.
padikiller responds:
What are you talking about, Brian?...
The evidence CLEARLY shows that black enlistment is DECLINING after 9/11, thus shooting Rangel's nonsense about the racial basis for reinstituting the draft to Hell....
Of course the mysterious "differential effects by race/ethnicity" which have curtailed black enlistment since the fighting began are not explained... But they are obvious, nonetheless..
Nobody is disputing the fact that blacks are disproportionately represented in NON-COMBAT roles.... But the fact of the matter is that white soldiers (and sailors, airmen, etc.) are nearly TWICE as likely to die in Iraq as their black counterparts... (whites have a relative mortality level of 1.086, while blacks have a level of 0.568)
Read for yourself....
http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=psc_working_papers
Are you claiming that Rangel proposes sending proportionately MORE blacks to their deaths in Iraq through reinstitution of the draft?... HUH?...
Of course...
Here we are off again on yet another liberal dodge of the issue!....
The REAL question remains...
What kind of "journalism" is this, that regurgitates the claims of Democrats, but dismisses the claims of Republicans?...
WHY can't any of you McLearyites answer this question?!....
Posted by padikiller on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 02:38 PM
"What kind of "journalism" is this, that regurgitates the claims of Democrats, but dismisses the claims of Republicans?..."
Ah what claims?
What exactly do you mean by this quote?
"Of course the mysterious "differential effects by race/ethnicity" which have curtailed black enlistment since the fighting began are not explained... But they are obvious, nonetheless.."
What is obvious?
Posted by Brian DeSpain on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 02:44 PM
I guess I missed the claims being "dismissed." Exactly what are those?
Posted by Brian DeSpain on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 02:49 PM
Brian DeSpain wrote:
Ah what claims?
padikiller responds:
Chuckie Rangel's ridiculous claim that minorities and poor Americans are being disproportionately placed in "harm's way" in Iraq...
The claim that Paul McLeary tacitly endorsed here...
Brian DeSpain continues:
What exactly do you mean by this quote?
"Of course the mysterious "differential effects by race/ethnicity" which have curtailed black enlistment since the fighting began are not explained... But they are obvious, nonetheless.."
What is obvious?
padikiller responds:
That some unknown "differential effect" is keeping blacks from enlisting in the military now that fighting has begun at the rate they enlisted in peacetime... That some unknown "differential effect" is sending whites to enlist now at greater rates than they did in peacetime...
Obviously (accourding to the report YOU cited, at least)...
The facts are what they are, Brian....
If you don't like them... Just do like the other McLearyites and ignore them... (Ruby slippers and a conk on the head help this process, by the way)
Posted by padikiller on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 03:02 PM
Well you said this Padikiller
Of course the mysterious "differential effects by race/ethnicity" which have curtailed black enlistment since the fighting began are not explained... But they are obvious, nonetheless..
Ok you claim here that the effect isn't explained but the cause is "obvious." If it's obvious can you let me know what you think it is?
Posted by Brian DeSpain on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 03:06 PM
Padikiller - I don't really know what a "Mclearyrite" is. I came here from appliedepistemology.com. Is name calling really necessary? I assume you mean it as some form of insult.
What Republican claims are being "dismissed"? BTW this is the second time I have asked this.
Posted by Brian DeSpain on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 03:11 PM
Brian DeSpain wrote:padikiller responds:
You are attempting to put words in my mouth...
This is a nasty little trick, typical of liberals who need to dodge the issues..
In FACT, Brian, I made no such claim about the CASUE of the decline in black military enlistment or the corresponding rise in white enlistment after fighting began...
I merely noted the reality... that the EFFECT is obvious...
At least so says the report YOU cited...
Posted by padikiller on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 03:12 PM
I think you have the bold key stuck. What are the Republican claims being dismissed again?
Posted by Brian DeSpain on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 03:14 PM
Brian DeSpain wrote:
I don't really know what a "Mclearyrite" is. I came here from appliedepistemology.com. Is name calling really necessary? I assume you mean it as some form of insult.
padikiller responds:
I suppose any label can be insulting or flattering, depending upon the circumstances...
I use the word "McLearyite" to describe the multitudes of blind liberals here who tolerate the journalistic malpractice of Paul McLeary and his ilk...
Brian DeSpain wrote:
What Republican claims are being "dismissed"? BTW this is the second time I have asked this.
padikiller responds
ALL unsupported GOP claims...
For recent examples...
The White House's "irresponsible" (and utterly convincing) refutation of Bob Woodward's latest nonsense...
The Pentagon's new "smelly" PR policy...
President Bush's CJR-labeled "dubious" land deal in Paraguay....
By the way...
I am under no duty to answer your questions here, Brian....
I will do so within reason, as time allows...
Posted by padikiller on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 03:29 PM
Well when your contention is that Republican claims are being dismissed - it's not a unreasonable question. I mean you cannot make an assertion the "Republican claims are being dismissed" without some backup.
Posted by Brian DeSpain on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 03:32 PM
No offense Padkiller but I missed the utterly convincing rebuttal of Woodward's book. It seemed to confirm what Paul O' Neill said about the administration - no real surprise there. I have no idea about those other incidents/claims. Do you have any background reading?
Posted by Brian DeSpain on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 03:36 PM
Brian wrote:
No offense Padkiller but I missed the utterly convincing rebuttal of Woodward's book.
Why am I not surprised?.....
Search the White House website for the rebuttal of several of Woodward's idiotic claims...
You sure as Hell won't find any referenc to the rebuttal HERE in the realm of "professional journalism"..
Posted by padikiller on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 03:44 PM
"Search the White House website for the rebuttal of several of Woodward's idiotic claims..."
Are these the search terms I should use?
Posted by Brian DeSpain on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 03:48 PM
Found them - ten listing here's my favorite though!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/09/20060930-5.html
MYTH #4: Woodward Claims Gen. Abazaid Alleged Sec. Rumsfeld "Doesn't Have Any Credibility Anymore." (Bob Woodward, State Of Denial, 2006)
* FACT: Gen. Abizaid's Spokesman Says Gen. Abizaid Denies Saying This, And In Fact "General Abizaid Has Nothing But The Greatest Respect For Mr. Rumsfeld." (David E. Sanger, "White House Disputes Book's Account Of Rifts On Iraq," The New York Times, 9/30/06)
Well I guess Rumsfield's firing means that Woodward just got the source wrong. It wasn't Abezaid but maybe President Bush who didn't find Rummy credible anymore!
Posted by Brian DeSpain on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 03:58 PM
Two of the myths in that release are about Rumsfield - #5 is that Andy Card tried to have him fired. Judging from what happened after the day of the election (Rumsfield's firing, along with the president clearly stating he made his mind up more than a month before the election) it seems that Woodward's "Myths" have a bit more credibility.
Posted by Brian DeSpain on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 04:34 PM
The ethics of McLearyland are malleable things indeed...
The "outing" of Sen. Allen's Jewish ancestry was labeled by Mr. McLeary as a "blockbuster story"...
But John Kerry's nearly IDENTICAL Jewish heritage went unheralded by CJR before the 2004 elecetion...
Allen's "macaca" incident and unsubstantiated allegations of thirty-year old racist remarks rated nearly full-time CJR pre-election attention...
But just one election to the west of Virginia, Sen. Byrd's former membership in the KKK and his racist past went thoroughly unnoticed by the self-proclaimed "watchdogs" of professional journalism... As did Byrd's recent use of the n-word...
CJR actually lamented the press for being "too skeptical" of the ridiculously flawed MIT/Johns Hopkins claim that more than half a million Iraqi males have been shot in the last three years...
CJR sent a reporter to Texas on an idiotic (and fruitless, of course) quest to find a typewriter (or indirect evidence of the existence of such a miraculous typewriter) capable of recreating the Dan Rather fake memos (which were written in the DEFAULT setting of MS Word)...
The examples of CJR's biae are endless...
CJR has the nerve to chide Fox news for failing to "own up" to its consertive leanings... While its own "watchdogs" here rake liberal muck into filty piles of "jaundiced journalism"
Posted by padikiller on Sun 26 Nov 2006 at 05:20 PM